To my pen, forgive me for typing..

The musings of a pilly ... Somewhat of a daily blog about my life and whatever.

Friday, December 01, 2006

On LOVE & "Window Shopping"

Fu's play Window Shopping was great, mostly because Fu was the most talented from all and had me and V laughing throughout. A big CONGRATULATIONS to Fu!

The topic of arranged marriage that the play touched on, and my short talk with Nauman later on about the problem with weddings/marriage in the Pakistani/Indian culture, got me thinking about this so called "window shopping" for your mate in life. This is something that I thoroughly disagree with. I'm not talking about ancient practices of men and women who've never spoken a word to each other and then being forced into marriage. Okay, to some degree, that isn't really an ancient practice, but I have friends whose parents, introduced to each other by their parents, barely knew each other for a week before agreeing to marry. However, here I'm talking about "arranged" as in the sense of parents who hunt down available single males or females at every function they go to, for their child to maybe one day marry. Does that even make sense? Is that even Islamic? Can you really pick the most suitable person at a party where that person is dressed up to look his/her best and be on his/her best behaviour? Of course not. If you do, you're being very irresponsible.

[This post has nothing to do with teaching/the classroom, but I just wanted to mention that I gave my students a very long lecture on being responsible (oh they must love me!) and now that topic seems to be popping up in all my discussions.]

It takes a while to get to know someone. This is the biggest decision of your life, how can you decide in days/weeks/months? Shouldn't it take 1-2 years? I feel like shaking people on boths sides of the problem. Parents, why are you in such a hurry to marry off your children to just anyone it seems? Put some thought into your future son/daughter-in-law besides the colour of their skin and how much money they have in the bank. Ladies, why are you so desperate that you settle for the first guy suggested your way by mommy and daddy? Aren't you educated? Don't you have your own thoughts/ ideas/ values/ brain?! Men, why can't you get up of your lazy butt and stop having your parents guide your life? Act like men!

Sorry. I don't really want to shake anyone :S I just feel frustrated when I see the type of ridiculous cultural practices that take place around me. I feel so lucky to not have parents who have to "window shop" but at the same time, I feel incredibly embaressed for those who do.

I recently read the book The Namesake - a great book (and soon to be movie) that deals with this issue in a way. The main character's parents are Bengali immigrants who barely know each other when they get married and yet they leave their family and everything they know to move to America to begin life together as practically strangers. To me, that just doesn't make sense. Their relationship lacks love. Why would you want to travel halfway across the world with someone you don't love? However, their son, who goes through various relationships with two American women and one woman of a similar background, doesn't end up with love either.

So how do you find love then? Do you sit back and let your parents do all the work or do you hunt for that special someone on your own? Or is it a combination of the two?

How important IS love anyway? Is it something that you should feel and understand before marriage, or is it something that comes later on, once you've already tied the knot? Do you grow to love each other? Personally, I know that I could never marry someone who I don't love first. For me, love simply has to come before marriage. Any thoughts/opinions about all this? I know this post is kinda all over the place but I can't help but look around me at the couples I see (married and unmarried) .. who lack love. And I can't help but look around me at the single men and women out there and question their values and motivations in finding love or finding someone to fall in love with.

54 Comments:

  • At 5:20 a.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    So I'm actually in the process of doing two major assignments right now, but thought I'd drop in for a bit.

    I think you're being a little too touchy on the issue at hand. Just because the whole arranged marriage idea seems weird to you, it doesn't mean that other people see it the same way.

    I personally wouldn't get married to someone I've never met or talked to. That's stupid and completely un-Islamic. In the time of the prophet (peace be upon him), one of the companions told him that he was going to be married. The Prophet asked him if he had seen the girl and the man said no. So the prophet ORDERED him to go see her first. Clearly, there is subtance behind this action of his.

    But at the same time, I do want an arranged marriage. I want to marry someone who's religious enough not to want to date beforehand. That doesn't mean I'm not going to get to know him in the proper way and take my time. Not at all. And sometimes it takes one week for people to be aquainted with one another, and sometimes it takes years. It really depends on the people and situation. You can't generalize and look down upon people who want to get married early on in life or who choose a partner in what you deem to interpret as a short time.

    What we see as "love" is a social construction. Why do you need to "fall in love" before you get married? That's actually quite a recent development on the marriage scene.

    Love is built out of respect and friendship first. To respect someone for who they are and what values they have is more valuable to me than falling in love with someone who knows how to spout sonnets or whatever. Respect breeds a love that is more lasting and stable.

    That's my 2 cents.

     
  • At 7:08 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    asmaa i think she mentioned it was her own opnion.. my views differ from both of u but i appreciate seeing other sides.

     
  • At 9:25 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I used to think like you. Even though going in the arranged marriage circus I used to think it's better to know a person for sometime before deciding to commit. Now I am not sure.

    You see, when you start to get to know someone, you start to see his/her faults. And the thing is, the way arranged marriage intros work, you are automatically analytical and critical at the start. So in a way, you start focusing on the negatives because secretly you are looking to make yourself safe.

    I think people should just meet a couple of times, get a sense of the family and whether their morals and values are the same and if they are compatible, and then decide to commit. There is no reason to know what his favourite colours are, what movies she likes and so on.

    Just my $0.02

     
  • At 11:35 a.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At 11:47 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ok, since my siblings have been through both types of marriages, I think I have a bit of insight.

    Example #1: My brother.
    A typical arranged marriage.
    He met her, liked her, made istikharah, proposed and they got married.
    They are happily married for 6years already with two kids.

    Example #2: My sister.
    A typical love marriage.
    Boy meets girl, fall in love, made istikharah and get married.
    They are already married for 5years with one son.

    In both cases, my sister and brother asked for guidance towards their respective marriages.
    My sister and brother try and make their marriages work.
    I don't really see a big difference between the two as with both marriages you have to make it work. You might have a slight upperhand at marriage if you are in love, but marriage is very different to going out.
    It's a challenge both ways, and marriage makes half of your imaan.

    I have a friend who was unlucky in love (girls were always hurting him) and now he is getting married to a girl via the arranged route and he is sooo happy! I haven't seen him this happy in ages!

    It doesn't matter if it's arranged or love, it just matters how much effort you put into a marriage.
    Trust, respect and friendship are the basis of every relationship, including marriage.

     
  • At 6:19 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I agree with both ideas of marriage. I mean, arranged marriage now a days does not necessarily mean that you have to get married the next day (I have never ever seen this happen to anyone). Take my parents for example, they had an arranged marriage, stayed engaged for 3 years while my mom came to Canada and sponsored my Dad, and now they have been happily married for 23 years! And now consider my cousin who got married to his university girlfriend in 2004. They had a love marriage and spent $80 000 on their wedding, and now only 2 years later they are separated. So, what is love really? In my opinion, arranged marriages last longer and are stronger because the two souls are bound not because they are physically attracted to one another but because they feel a responsibility and feel bound to the ties that connected them. Love marriages, although do work out and I will probably have one... don't have any real commitment behind them. I dunno how to explain what I mean, but if you get to know someone for 3 years and are always with them, like u r married, what's the difference getting married. There is no attraction to a wedding or marriage anymore, since you are practically married...its just because of society and laws that you need to get married. Especially couples who are living together...what makes it any more different than getting married? Like when you have an arranged marriage, you get to know the person for some time before getting married, and then you are commited. But if you move in with ur mate and then decide you dont want to get married...I dunno, I just dont get it. By the way, if you watch Bollywood movies, there is a new movie that came out called 'Vivah', and it is about arranged marriages and how arranged marriages end in love and more commitment for each other. Shahid Kapoor marries the girl even though she gets into an accident. I suggest watching it...I cried the whole movie. But anyway, in the end...marriage is a very sacred bind, and I do not believe in quick marriages and even faster divorces. Couples should get married knowing they are in it through thickness and thin, and that no matter what you are bound to each other.
    :) Just my 2cents...

     
  • At 6:42 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Though I made fun of Vivah, though it had some (very) corny parts, there was enough good lessons from it and the ending really made it into a big hit.

     
  • At 9:02 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    lol...I agree some parts of Vivah were funny and corny...but the actual message was real sweet and touching.

     
  • At 9:26 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Eek! Okay, I probably should have said that this is all my own opinion and I wasn't intending to offend anyone in any way.. I hope I didn't! I appreciate everyone's 2 cents :D

    Asmaa: One week is way too short, I'll never change my mind about that! I've seen both arranged marriages and love marriages where the couple only knew each other for a short time before marrying, fail - that's why I say that. I know if it were me I could never marry someone after knowing them for just a week - that's just too awkward for me (but that's just me!),. I agree that love is built out of respect and friendship first but again for me I don't think I could marry a "friend" just because I respect them, I'd have to love them. Okay I don't think that made sense..

    Anyways, I don't think falling in love is a recent development, I think it's always been there, it just hasn't been documented, how could it be?!

    Anonymous: I'd like to hear your side :)

    Mezba: Thanks for your opinion. I don't know how it would be to look at your partner negatively from the beginning though. Wouldn't that make you feel sad? I know it would make me feel not attracted to him especially if I found many things wrong (I can be very critical). Maybe I'm just too picky, I'm the type of person who needs to know favourite colour and movies etc :S Once I know everything about a person (or as much as I possibly can) then only I can feel comfortable with them.

    Asmaa again, lol, don't worry, but I have to delete this comment because you mention my name in it.

    Fatima: I like how both of your examples work out. So the main point is, you can work through either one if you ask for guidence. Sounds good to me. "Trust, respect and friendship are the basis of every relationship, including marriage" -- I totally agree.

    Faiza: $80,000 on their wedding :S That makes me nervous lol, I think my own wedding will be quite cheap.. I don't think I could ever spend so much money on one day.. and that sucks because now their not even together :S I think love marriages can work out if you're commited. But committed can mean different things for different people. To me, committment means working towards marriage with that as your intention because sometimes there's others things you need to get through in life first in order to make the second part work out.

    Mezba & Faiza: I don't watch Bollywood movies (or at least I've seen maybe 3 in my whole life) but that does sound like an interesting one and since you both say it has a good message behind it I'm curious. I like movies with good lessons :)

     
  • At 12:09 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ahhh! I want to read the namesake, I hope that doesn't spoil anything.

     
  • At 1:59 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i met and married him within three weeks and we never went out once . . . its been six years . . . and i'm still in love***

    fida . . .

     
  • At 1:59 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i met and married him within three weeks and we never went out once . . . its been six years . . . and i'm still in love***

    fida . . .

     
  • At 4:22 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Ahmed: Sorry! You should still read it though! I think you'll enjoy it :)

    Fida: Yeah I don't think I could ever do that!! But that's great that it's worked for you, I'm happy, and wow 6 years?! All this time I thought you were a teenager and you're a MARRIED woman :D

     
  • At 5:28 p.m., Blogger FU said…

    holy crap.. u have like a CNN discussion going on in your blog.

    I don't have the patience for debate probably coz i like to sleep and eat.

    THANK U FOR ENJOYING THE PLAY - i'm happy that it created such a spark on your blog and such a great debate. i agree.. it's an issue, but like any situation, it's not one to say YES or NO to. It's one of those wishy washy things where things can go anyway they can. Life is Life.

    I'm hungry and sleepy.

    I told you I'm not one for debates.

     
  • At 8:51 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I married my husband after knowing him for 1.5 weeks. It's been 1.5 years now but I don't "love" him as I should. He's a very nice man, don't get me wrong.. It's hard u know. i wish I had listend to my heart instead of my parents voices echoeing in my head. if I had gone with my 'love' then maybe things would be different. you can't help but wonder. but I'm pregnant now and there's no going back. That's life. make the right choices so you don't have any regrets that's all I will say more.

     
  • At 10:46 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Fu: Maybe I should have more debates on here, I have them in my classroom everyday so I'm quite used to them. Only when I'm teaching I always win!

    Anonymous: Things will work out inshAllah.. everything happens for a reason and sometimes we just don't know what that reason is right? We can't go back in time but we can go forward to make things right.

    I agree that making the right choices are important. I know I've made the right choice.. let's just see what happens now.

    Good luck!

     
  • At 10:49 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Anonymous: I just read your comment again (more slowly this time) and I feel a bit sad. I want to say something else but I don't know what to say. I wish you all the best and hope that things work out for you, him, and future baby. Praying will help you focus on what you want. Again, just know that things happen for a reason. You now have to make that reason right.

     
  • At 9:16 a.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Clairissa: "ICK, who would want to marry and "do married things" with a STRANGER?! Yuck-o" - my thoughts exactly lol. I'm not saying to "do married things" before marriage no no but just yeah you gotta knowwwwwwwww him!!

     
  • At 4:28 p.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    Okay I'm sorry I'm coming back for a third comment, but I just need to.

    Clairissa, your thinking is pretty ethnocentric, which is natural :) What you think works in the Western tradition may not hold true for people of other faith or cultural backgrounds. All that means is that you refer back to your own experiences and culture when you express these opinions of yours.

    But I don't think anyone here is in favour of marrying complete strangers. That's not what we mean by arranged marriages. The idea is that you get to know a prospective spouse in a non-sexual way. You find out about his/her ideas, opinions, beliefs, values, family, etc. You get to respect his/her values and characteristics first without sexual tension playing a big role in your judgement. You get to see the core of a person before your judgement is clouded by their attractiveness or whatever. From what I see, love comes out of admiration and true respect and not necessarily the other way around.

    To you, it may seem "icky" but to me, it is totally reasonable and I would willingly and happily opt for this method. I respect your opinion and all I ask is for people to respect mine.

     
  • At 8:30 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Asmaa: I'm happy that you came back to clarify :) I didn't mean to offend you but I didn't say I thought arranged marriages meant to marry a complete stranger. At least not today here in Canada (I would hope). I'm quite familiar with how they work (in an Islamic way) but again, I've seen both ways fail so maybe there really is no perfect way and it just depends on how the individual wants it done?

    The main thing I wanted to get across in this post is that I think getting married to someone after such a short time is just nuts. Of course this is different for everyone, but I'm just saying that I personally don't understand it because I imagine myself in that situation and I know I could NEVER do it. Again, that's just me though! Your way is respected!

    And "his/her ideas, opinions, beliefs, values, family values" can be respected both ways. Sure you don't have to actually see (and be alone with the guy), but sexual tension always exists EVEN if you're just talking to some guy that you're interested in (for marriage sake) on MSN. It's always there, you can't ignore it, even if you want to!

     
  • At 8:48 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    You know, everyone's been regarding their 'opinions' as just that, i hope it's not being done to preserve one's own 'opinion', let's think outside the box, let's grow.

    Marriage. Arranged Marriage. Love after Marriage or NO love after Marriage. Where in this picture does the trust in Allah swt fit in?

     
  • At 8:56 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Bliss: Um trust in God fits in everywhere (I hope). I'm not sure what exactly you're asking.. or referring to in the first part of your comment - clarify?

     
  • At 11:47 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    clarify, arrite i'll try.

    Now I don't wanna call this my opinion, but it's just that so many people that I come across are severly engrossed in the thought of love and how can it be if it's not with love and all that jazz, (i was one these individuals not long ago myself)

    And it just seems that the faith in Allah swt, the taqwa, the trust, is all lost, if not lost then DEFINETLY not emphasized, not given the immense undoubtable, unshakable status that it deserves.

    All in all, i just feel that people tend to forget that "everything will be all right" just put ur trust where it belongs. It's human nature to worry about these things and to not understand some stuff either, which is ok but let's not battle with it.

     
  • At 12:00 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I haven't read everything everyone's said in detail (just too much to read right now) but here's my story:

    I've been "arranged" to be married – but not in the typical sense. I initiated it... got my parents to do my bidding for me. I had someone in mind and made that very clear to them.

    We knew each other, but never dated etc. After doing istikharah and discussions back and forth, I finally got engaged. It's been 2.5 years now and we've gotten to know each other even better during this time.

    -------

    I don't think it's the process of an arranged marriage that most people are scared off. It's the thought of your parents hooking you up because after all, they are your parents. Like someone said, if it was your friends doing the matchmaking, there'd be no problem because you're on the same wavelength.

    It's also this idea of marrying a complete stranger that turns people off. But isn't the "western, dating" method similar? Granted, you're not going into the relationship knowing you'll be married to them... but you still start off as strangers (at some point) and get to know each other over time.

    (I'd like to add: that 1-month or 1-week timeframe IS crazy. If I was in that situation, there'd be no way I'd agree to it).

    Also, if I was arranged to be married to someone that I didn't like no one could force me into that relationship. (But that's not the case in my example).

    ------

    All that being said, those aunties who go shopping for suitors at parties need to find another hobby.

     
  • At 12:37 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Bliss: Okay :)

    Umar: The way your situation worked out sounds perfect to me. I like how you initiated it and like you say, got your parents to do your bidding. Aww :D

    __

    On the note of parents, it seems to me that some parents don't REALLY think of what's "best" for their children when "choosing" someone - but maybe that's just my interpretation of it because I know girls whose parents had no problem finding them a man in another country and to me that just seems wrong .. because if your parents cared so much.. wouldn't they want to keep you close by? Then of course there's parents who do know their children "well enough" and care (but can you really know your child better than they know themselves? but whatever), - so that's all well and good :) The end?

     
  • At 3:04 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    agree to disagree :)

    on a sidenote:
    Bliss, I have a huge problem with adopting the "everything will be ok" mentality. It's such a submissive, fatalistic way to think.

    but that's just my opinion.

     
  • At 3:33 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    liya - no need to apologize.

    you don't see other people apologizing for their opinions. you're entitled to yours.

     
  • At 4:04 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    lol.

    ah, that made me laugh.

    Bro Umar- your opinion seems valid granted that you didn't quite get the message that I was conveying.

    hmm, the "everything will be okay" mentality isn't the sort that aunties would like to have one believe, oh no it's not that one at all. The one I was referring to - sigh - is i guess..a bit hard to grasp and will be..since i'll probably do such a horrible job explaining it anyway.

    It's more like the unshakable trust in Allah swt acoompanied WITH the drive to reach the akhirah, one's ultimate end/beginning, and so - some would like to give this journey here - minimal importance, enough to function, kno what im saying? I mean, that's not to say marry absolutely anyone, but I don't know - my perception has changed greatly and I just don't care about attaining 'Love' ..(at all?)..well not the superficially preconcieved, socially constructed, 'good feeling' love anyway..it's definetely not on the 'to do list' before marriage.

    And at the end of the day, can someone please tell me what 'love' is? Isn't that where the argument ends? Begins you say?..

    This debate is so not on my turf anymore, thanQ for taking the time out to read.

     
  • At 5:04 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    IN addition to the above post:

    Whether with love or not, who knows whether that 'love' will remain after marriage. And if it didn't exist to begin with, who knows that it won't be born in the relationship after marriage?

    There are no guarantees, we just have to do our best to attain the love and blessings of Allah swt.

    PeAce

     
  • At 5:50 p.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    lol, my 4th comment (liya, marriage is a hot topic, clearly :D)

    I slightly disagree with Bliss (sorry hun), but look: you put your trust in Allah (swt), right? That's wicked, and that's what we should be doing.

    But you always have to tie your camel and then put your trust in Allah! So you MUST take the means to finding a spouse instead of just waiting around saying "Allah will provide." Allah DOES provide, there's no doubt about that, but you have to make a concerted and sincere effort first. If you don't make an effort and inctead just completely "rely" on Allah, that's called laziness.

    What is love? Is love a fancy or a feeling? Hehe. I'm not going to philosophize about love, but I will say that it IS a central part of marriage, no doubt! You CAN'T live with someone you detest! All I'm disagreeing with is the way in which we go about attaining said 'love' and making it last.

    Anyways liya, my apologies once more. I didn't mean to sound arrogant or anything...I just get defensive sometimes, and that comes across badly :S

     
  • At 8:47 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hah!

    Miss Asmaa, i knew someone was gonna come around with the 'tie the camel' speech, i just assumed it was an implied understanding :p .

    So we've agreed, i've done a horrible job at explaining myself.

    Dah well.

     
  • At 9:59 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At 10:00 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Umar: Nope, I agree with you, I just added that in about parents because I realized I hadn't said anything about that before. BTW I have two fabulous parents and I know they'd make the right choice for me, but we both agreed it would be best if I found someone and they were there to approve/disapprove. And well they approve! For the most part! :D

    You're right, I shouldn't apologze so much but I think it's the teacher in me. I really don't want to offend anyone but I do love to hear everyone's opinions (as long as they don't hurt anyone else or contain any bad language!) - that sounds like a teacher thing to say right ?!

    As for Bliss's comment, I agree with you on that too. It's too easy to sit back and wait. I think trust in God should be there in whatever it is that you're doing in the first place.

    Bliss: I don't think anyone cares about the "superficially preconcieved, socially constructed, 'good feeling' love!" If they did then I don't really think they're ready for marriage.. is that another topic? :S

    What is love? Ah, I think that's another topic for another post too lol.

    I agree with you on this - "Whether with love or not, who knows whether that 'love' will remain after marriage. And if it didn't exist to begin with, who knows that it won't be born in the relationship after marriage?" Those are things we'll never know - but we can try mighty hard to make sure that the love stays alive and grows stronger each day! Right?!

    Asmaa: Don't apologize! (refer to Umar's comment hehe). I appreciate your views and do agree with you that when it comes down to it, love IS a central part of marriage (obviously it should be) and we just go about securing it I guess you could say, in different ways.

    @ Bliss's latest comment: No it wasn't horrible. You had your own opinions and some interesting things to say and I appreciate that :)

     
  • At 10:44 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hello all,
    I have been following this discussion, and your blog for some time. Clairissa, arranged marriages in the Islamic sense are not forced. Ultimately, the girl decides yes or no and her decision is respected. Also, you don't just know someone for 5 minutes! But I will tell you that too many young girls seem to be in too much of a hurry to marry. Why? Perhaps they don't see any other choice. Perhaps their parents don't encourage them to seek work but to be housewives. Perhaps they want to leave their parents home. Perhaps they want something new and exciting that wasn't allowed before. There are so many reasons. However, I was one of them (I'm your earlier commentor). I'm married to the nicest man in the world but I'm not attracted to him. Neither do I love him as I should. Should I? I should. Could I? One day eventually. I rushed. I made some wrong choices but I won't leave now.

    Physical attraction is one of many important things. You can't marry someone because they're only beautiful on the inside. They should be both. If you do the former then you're some sort of saint.

     
  • At 12:08 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This reminds me of a joke I heard:

    A muslim was talking to another without similar moral values (lets call them Muslim and D)

    Muslim "My mom is looking for a boy for me to marry"

    D "OMG, arranged marriage, that is so stupid. I can't belive how you can do that?"

    Muslim "Why?, I heard he is a nice and kind person"

    D "That does not matter, how can you sleep with someone you just met?!"

    Muslim "But D, you do that every weekend" ...

     
  • At 12:49 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ^ Anonymous: unfortunately, not all arranged marriages are done islamically. Sometimes it is expected of the girl to agree, so refusing is easier said than done.

    On a lighter note:
    http://ninjabi.com/5.php

     
  • At 12:05 p.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    Clairissa, saying "I will never understand arranged marriages" is exactly your problem :) Again, you don't understand it because it's not your culture. So agreeing to disagree is one thing - but openly ridiculing someone for their beliefs on marriage is incredibly narrow-minded. Again, ethnocentrism!

    I'm not denying the need for physical attraction. You DO need that, obviously. But there's always something more lasting than that, isn't there?

     
  • At 2:39 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    American/Western culture treats arranged marriages like they are some sort of criminal or unjust act. I dont understand how people think arranged marriage IN TODAYS SOCIETY means knowing someone for 5 minutes and getting married and intimate with them! It's not like that anymore, especially in American and Canada ( I can't speak for rural places like Pakistan and India and other places like that). I mean, arranged marriage in my sense IS like someone playing cupid. It's just a way your parents or whoever hook up two single human beings, then it is up to these beings to decide to marry or not. They can take as long as they like, date etc. It's not as a big a deal as people think it is. This discussion needs to be clarified. Most Western South Asians/Muslims/Indians etc. DO NOT FORCE their children into marriages in one week...they simply bring two single souls together, and then it is up to these souls to choose their mates ;)

     
  • At 2:43 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    one more thing! I think the word arranged marriage should be banned...parents are just the source that bring two beings together so they can get to know each other and then possibly decide to marry. If they do not like each other, then they DO NOT HAVE TO MARRY! Just like if your best friend hooks you up at a club, or with his/her boyfriends friend and you end up getting married, would that be arranged marriage????!!! Like, Liya, I dont mean any offense or disrespect, but if your boyfriend has a cousin/brother/friend etc. and your sister and he fall in love and get married, would you call that an arranged marriage? I dont think so.

     
  • At 3:39 p.m., Blogger FU said…

    what the hell happened here?!?!

    more than 40 comments?!

    damn - i had no idea my play was THAT inspiring..

    i think all of you need to watch my play :)

     
  • At 5:42 p.m., Blogger Squeeky said…

    Assalaamu Alaikum :)

    I wish I watched that play hehe

    Wow, marriage is such a touchy topic. So many comments! I'm not going to add much but it's very evident that people have their own views on the issue. I get frustrated when the whole "arranged marriage" thing isn't played out Islamically and there always seems to be pressure put upon the girl in the situation, which is unfair. I believe "arranged marriage" can work and it's pretty neat when it actually does :D

    May Allah Swt make it easy upon all of us to unite with the one He (swt) has destined us to be with.

     
  • At 9:16 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Whoa, I came home from work and saw the number 45 and well wow this really is a hot topic! Maybe because it's one of those things that affects us all in some way. No matter where we're coming from, marriage is one of those goals in life that we all want to work towards (or already have achieved). It's something any human can relate to! In that case, I'm happy that this post generated so many views and opinions. Marriage is alive! LOL okay I'll stop.

    [replied to in the order that I see your comments even if you commented more than once]

    Clairissa: I know I could never be intimate with a guy who I didn't know very very very well. Thank goodness V's hot otherwise I wouldn't want him in my bed lol.
    "Even getting to know the ugliest man alive on the inside will NEVER make me respect him enough to sleep with him. Bottom line: I need to be attracted to him (on the outside)." -- I agree with you totally here. I need to know I can wake up in the morning and not feel repulsed.

    However, I should clarify that if done Islamically, the marriage isn't supposed to be "forced." When it comes down to it the individual has all the choice in the world to say yes or no but sadly because of cultural/traditional practises among some people, saying "no" isn't as easy as it should be. Faiza explains it better than me. Playing cupid is a good way to put it.

    Anonymous: Okay now I feel like I just said what you did in different words, that "arranged marriages in the Islamic sense are not forced. Ultimately, the girl decides yes or no and her decision is respected. Also, you don't just know someone for 5 minutes!" I do agree with you on the girls in such a hurry to marry that they say "yes" to the first suggested person, not really carrying for anything but just to be able to say they're married. Actually, I think that is what my post was about in the first place. I found that annoying because it seems like they really don't care about such an important descision and it makes them look stupid (to me).

    And I love how you say that you don't want to marry someone who is only beautiful on the inside because only a saint would do that. You're right. Like I mentioned somewhere above, it's human nature to want to wake up beside someone who doesn't look disgusting to you is it not? But um yeah I just realized I don't think saints get married anyway.

    Truth: Ah Truth, I don't know who you are, but your joke is a little bit offensive and I'm not sure if it helps this dicussion in any way. Why offensive? Well if we're talking about narrowmindedness on one side then your joke is the perfect example of narrow-mindedness on the other side. I don't know any nonmuslim girl who sleeps with a different guy every weekend. It seems to me that you base your judgement on what the media portrays of I guess you could say the western woman. Yes I understand it's a joke. But come on!

    Umar: That cartoon is the cutest thing! Sums up the way it's viewed by some in a very nice easy to understand way that puts a smile on your face. At least it put one on mine. I should also mention that I like your approach to marriage because it's the exact same thing my parents and grandparents did. They did the searching and finding then they let their parents do the bidding.

    Clairissa: The girl should have every right to decline politely (or not politely if she wants!) again, if following Islam. I forget who I said this to, but again, sometimes people let their own silly traditions get in the way of following religion - which is not how it should be - but you can't change people who are so stuck in their ways right? - even if you know they're doing something wrong.

    Clairissa: Oh I didn't even realize it was the same Anonymous! Well I respect staying in the marriage too. It does take both of you to make the marriage work though. I hope it works :)

    Asmaa: Culture ah, I've always had a problem with this word but I think I should save that for another post :S It hard to understand the ways of people we don't know or only hear about from the media. I know I have a hard time understanding the marriage practises that some of my other friends have (ex. hindu practise of getting married to someone of a matching astrological sign and basing the perfect day for your wedding in what you see in the stars). But it's good to get everything out, then we can see what areas need to be talked about more openly. See where people lack information, and hopefully in some way teach so that we understand each other.

    Faiza: "arranged marriage in my sense IS like someone playing cupid. It's just a way your parents or whoever hook up two single human beings, then it is up to these beings to decide to marry or not. They can take as long as they like, date etc. It's not as a big a deal as people think it is. This discussion needs to be clarified." I think you clarify it well. For those of you who aren't sure what an arranged marriage can mean - read the above! Of course though, this is the good side and the way it should be done. There's also the other side which includes pressure and feelings of guilt - but that's the type of arranged marriage that isn't supposed to exist. So I guess it just depends on how you go about "arranging."

    Faiza: Boyfriend? What boyfriend lol. Maybe the term should be changed. Playing cupid? Does that make it seem less harsh? Maybe. I guess it depends on what type of an arrangement it is. Is it just an introduction like some kind of blind date or is it a "I know a nice boy who's a doctor who lives in America. You'll be very happy with him and we know his parents are good people" -- kinda implying that this is the right choice. The only choice. Ah okay my two comments to you are kinda the same :S

    Fu: LOL I know eh. Do you feel famous yet? :D

    Squeeky: I think the pressure put on the girl is unfair too. What I really don't like is how eager some parents are to marry their girls off to guys who live so far away. Okay, well not so far, but like in the States because if you live here why would you want your daughter to be living in say California? Whatever happened to the strong mother-daughter relationship? If I ever have daughters I'm going to buy them a house on the same street as me when they get married (inshAllah!) My grandma always complains that my mom lives too far from her and she just lives in Oakville - 25 minutes!










    Phew! Let's all get divorced now.

    I'm jokinggggggggg :D

     
  • At 9:35 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "I need to know I can wake up in the morning and not feel repulsed."
    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...priceless liya! My thots exactly...and u didnt really answer my question on whether if your "V" (lol) has a cousin/brother/friend etc. and you hook up your sister and this guys, and they fall in love and get married, would you call that an arranged marriage? ;) And in case ur wondering y I keep replying...I've been on my laptop since 2 (pm that is) today since I have 3 term papers to write up for Thursday and altho I should be doing those...I get bored and come to ur blog...lol

     
  • At 10:01 p.m., Blogger M&M said…

    This is a very interesting discussion.

    Just a point made on the bias on arranged marriage mentioned above about marrying people off far away. I agree, I cannot understand it either, especially if its in the cultural "arranged marriage" form. Even though this is a bit different from the rest of the discussion but another problem I have seen with these "arranged marriages" is that the parents find a mate for their daughter say she is in North America and some guy in SouthAsia/Africa/Europe and then they follow the typical cultural "arranged marraige" approach where they do not really let the girl talk to the guy at all moving away from Islamic principles and being truly taditional. So if the marraige is working, THEN the parents start forcing their daughter and her husband to move to North America or and leave his job etc, which leads to a lot of tension and marriage breakup. So if the parents cannot live without their daughter why in the world did they marry her off so far away and later on start having a negative effect on her marriage.

    and I do agree with the misconception of arranged marriage in Islam constantly with cultural biases.

    Btw 'liya I do not know you and you do not know me. I just came across your blog randomly a couple of months ago and its quite entertaining so I am a regular visitor. you are a great writer.

     
  • At 11:09 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Faiza: Hmm well V does have a brother but it would never work out with my sister - why? well their age difference is too big - 10 years! However, let's say I did introduce my sister to a guy, and they did fall in love and get married, - I guess I wouldn't call that an arranged marriage when it actually would really be one! Good point you brought up - a refreshing way to look at all this :D

    I know this will sound really weird seeing how you have 3 papers to write, but I actually wish I one too! I miss that. Now I'm so tempted to go over essay structure in class tomorrow lol. And I'm happy you check my blog in-between your work, I used to do the same thing with other people's sites or even newspaper articles when I was in school. Makes for some good entertainment that doesn't get you too off track like a phone call or MSN would!

    M&M: First of all, thank you for the compliment :) Now that I have a reader in you, you'll have one in me!

    The fact of sending someone away is another topic but I brought it up because in some ways it goes against the thought that IF you say that arranged marriage is best only because you feel that your parents know you better than anyone else and therefore can direct you to the best match possible, why then are your parents so comfortable with the idea of sending you away? If they know you so well and care for you so much - how CAN they send you away?! That's what I don't understand and yet I've seen it so often .. it's not like there's no suitable guys here! It makes me think that parents are too ready to send their child away for the first person they can find.. when maybe they haven't looked hard enough in their own city. And then, is that really looking for the best possible match?

    Just to clarify though, this isn't all parents/cases! I've just seen it happen. A lot.

     
  • At 10:15 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    you WANT to write a term paper? Omg...if you could, I would let you write mine...lol. But i guess I understand where u are coming from, I mean, I feel so sad since I only have one more semester left until I graduate UofT...I dont wanna GROW UP!!! I wonder what I'll be doing next year at this time......

     
  • At 12:26 p.m., Blogger Asmaa said…

    Clairissa, you say "Every woman deserves to find true love." I say okay, and every woman deserves to make her own choice on how she'll find it. Period.

    ps: faiza, you're a UofT-er. I should know you. Email me or something :D

     
  • At 4:29 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Clairissa: This definitely is a record for my blog lol. Sadly though, at school I saw a student wearing a t-shirt that said "nobody cares about your blog!" - and at first I felt personally offended but then realized it's meant for other students to read duh :S

    Faiza: Next year at this time?! Don't even think so far ahead lol. If you're looking at the EXACT moment in time you'll probably be doing something boring like shovelling snow. Or eating. :D

    Asmaa: Got it. :D Let's all be one big happy family and get married now hehe.

     
  • At 5:43 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Asmaa do u go to UTM? I bought a book once from an Asmaa...maybe it was u? have u ever taken any Psy courses?

     
  • At 8:33 p.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I haven't read any of the comments listed here because there's 55 of them (so far) but all I wanted to say was:

    "Wow, 55 comments on a post."

    Congratulations. :)

     
  • At 5:59 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Nauman: Hehe well I don't really care about the # (although I must admit it was pretty cool to see such a high # of comments), I care more that people gave some interesting opinions/ views, that in the end, made me feel stronger about my own. The fact that everyone had their own opinions kinda reminded me of my class. Everyone has their own opinions, nobody ever agrees on anything (unless I say we're having a test on it), but were still all respectful of each other.. (most of the time anyway lol).

    Thanks everyone for sharing!

     
  • At 3:02 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I have to agree with Fatima way up in the post, that the actual thing in the end is to work on the marriage.

    My sibling got married because they both liked eachother and I got married after meeting my husband through my parents and then wanting to marry him after getting to know him.

    And earlier on i used to think my sibling was better off from knowing the spouse beforehand but my sibling really convinced me that its about working on the marriage.

    Perhaps the communication has already been hammered out a bit with a couple who has known eachother longer, but otherwise its not that big of a deal.

    Love before marriage has a lot of lust in it, because you truly do not know a person the way you would afterwards. Your love simply is not that deep. It can't be even if yur just nuts about 'em and going crazy. Alot of that is lust.

    I liked my husband before marrying him alot but now i truly love him i feel after a few years of marriage, of really knowing him.

    I think the idea that 'love has to come before marriage' is really western.

    And also i really think that for a good stable marriage, love only is not enough. I think its essential to have enough strong common denominators working for you because in the times that yur both not feeling 'very loving', you still get along cuz you think alike and have similar values.

     
  • At 4:37 p.m., Blogger 'liya said…

    Anonymous: I don't think anyone said that love is all you need for a good stable marriage. That would just be silly.. For me, it's love and so much more. I would never marry someone who didn't have the same values as me even if he was the most attractive guy I had ever seen.

    Love before marriage doesn't always have to have a lot of lust in it. If your relationship was based on friendship first then you WOULD know how the person would be (after marriage) without marrying them first, at least, if you have a deep meaningful friendship.

    I'm happy that your marriage is working out well for you, but did your sister's marriage fail, is that what you were trying to say?

     
  • At 5:29 a.m., Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Its a late nite in Chicago @ 4:27.am happened to bump into ur blog by chance. ok. am a guy here@just hit 28 , no longer a fob, been in chicago for 7 years now.....and this is my take on the relationship stuff.....will be honest....

    Personally, the first few years i was in the usa, my main goal was to finish the studies, get a good job and get settled. Not much time for girls, was very close with someone, she started to get close and mm. i have to admit, i started withdrawing and keeping a distance- i wasnt ready for a relationship and had to consider my parents would have issues completely adjusting to a completely different family background (north india -> south india). It was painful but knew it wouldnt work in end, so both slowly got out of it..she is happiy married now found someone in her apartment complex. we continued to talk and meet for while but she stopped talking after she met this guy and only now after the marrige , she is getting back in touch.

    i worked hard in first few years in job (aka hardware company) and did well, had a good social life, hang around, and have fun..Life was smooth. I met someone 2 years back through a common friend when she visited chicago to see him from arizona. She was absolutely great had a good sense of humor, mature, traditional (knew what the limits were) and though we had a lot of thoughts in common. I consider myself pretty understanding and fit easily into any social environment. I have a very confident personality, decent looking but not mirror shattering material. This girl , my age (was aleady in the look for a life partner @ parents pressure) and had seen quite a few by then. From the usual hi/bye talk, we ended up talking more and more , hours on the phone and met decent no of times during that year. Still, I was aware that she was looking for the special someone. I started liking her , she enjoyed my company and spent quite a bit of time talking to me but she was looking for someone else. Its tough to know what attracts a girl, but I always felt she wasnt interested in me as a life partner. Just for her personality , I decided its better to let her know that I like her and if she is interested, would like to get serious about a relationship. I made the decision to ask after knowing her close for more than a year and felt I want to be clear to her about whats in my mind.

    The magical moment. I went to meet her and boldly told her I will be interested in her if she was interested in me or else we will remain friends... Thats the end of it. I lost a friend. I tried to call her few times, she hasnt called back....I frankly dont know if a woman really knows what she wants Is it her ego that stops her from being in touch...Women complain guys dont commit, but someone genuninely care and approaches them, they are still looking for their elusive prince in lala land.

    I am now in the hunt for a arranged marriage. I dont think there is anything bad about it, its how you take the relationship forward that matters. There are quite a few freinds I know who rejecetd arranged marriage in their minds and forced themselves to find someone themselves, they ended up marryin the first person they met in person on shaadi.com. I call that superficial relationships, marriage decisons shouldnt be decided on convenience, i have a comfortable job,so i will try to find someone close to my work place. There are many who do that for lack of security or personal identity. The US is such a big place full of opportunities, if you can find a great job wherever you are , there is every likelyhood that if you are good at what you do, you will find something anywhere else. Its what priorties you have that matters. If your priority is money, job security etc, these trivial things obscure your view of marriage and relationship choices. As for my friend in the shell, she is my age@ 28 and still looking. I respect her decision to look outside to find her prince charming.

     

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